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	<title>Comments on: IFRS vs US-GAAP: European Banks Leverage Overstated (Picture)</title>
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	<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/</link>
	<description>Alea Jacta Est</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:43:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-3228</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-3228</guid>
		<description>Hello,
I&#039;m looking for a clear explanation of these netting rules that change the counting of assets. Do you know any document?

Thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
I&#8217;m looking for a clear explanation of these netting rules that change the counting of assets. Do you know any document?</p>
<p>Thank you</p>
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		<title>By: Theresa</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-3010</link>
		<dc:creator>Theresa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 21:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-3010</guid>
		<description>Hello, where can I find statistics for  US commercial Banks and  US Investment banks leverage? I need from 2004 to 2008
I am doing a paper for MBA USP São Paulo - Brasil
Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, where can I find statistics for  US commercial Banks and  US Investment banks leverage? I need from 2004 to 2008<br />
I am doing a paper for MBA USP São Paulo &#8211; Brasil<br />
Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: -jck</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2949</link>
		<dc:creator>-jck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2949</guid>
		<description>Sandrew:
Don’t know for sure, but as they claim to use balance sheet data, probably book value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandrew:<br />
Don’t know for sure, but as they claim to use balance sheet data, probably book value.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandrew</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2947</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2947</guid>
		<description>No problem.  

I agree that book value based leverage ratios are a bit screwy, particularly if both the numerator and denominator reflect fantasies.  To that end, I rather liked the graph you posted a few days ago depicting leverage as a VaR-to-Equity ratio.  I&#039;m curious: were the equity values underlying that graph reflective book or market, do you know?  They look like they must be book, absent a giant spike on the right-hand side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem.  </p>
<p>I agree that book value based leverage ratios are a bit screwy, particularly if both the numerator and denominator reflect fantasies.  To that end, I rather liked the graph you posted a few days ago depicting leverage as a VaR-to-Equity ratio.  I&#8217;m curious: were the equity values underlying that graph reflective book or market, do you know?  They look like they must be book, absent a giant spike on the right-hand side.</p>
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		<title>By: -jck</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2944</link>
		<dc:creator>-jck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2944</guid>
		<description>Sandrew:
Thx for your comment.
I didn&#039;t say that DB leverage was the same than BoA on 31-12-2008. On balance when adjusting for different accounting standards, EU banks leverage is the same than US banks, this has been true for years. That it is not true today for DB, trading above book value vs BoA, trading more than 60% off book value  is completely irrelevant to what I was saying.
And as I pointed out, the leverage is roughly the same when taking the market value of equity rather than book, since it should be clear that BoA equity book value is mostly from cuckooland. That the degree of leverage converge should not be too surprising, all these banks are on the same capital framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandrew:<br />
Thx for your comment.<br />
I didn&#8217;t say that DB leverage was the same than BoA on 31-12-2008. On balance when adjusting for different accounting standards, EU banks leverage is the same than US banks, this has been true for years. That it is not true today for DB, trading above book value vs BoA, trading more than 60% off book value  is completely irrelevant to what I was saying.<br />
And as I pointed out, the leverage is roughly the same when taking the market value of equity rather than book, since it should be clear that BoA equity book value is mostly from cuckooland. That the degree of leverage converge should not be too surprising, all these banks are on the same capital framework.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandrew</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2943</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2943</guid>
		<description>It was very frustrating to read this thread, not least because two intelligent parties failed to communicate with each other.  

JCK, your point is well taken that GAAP/IFRS divergences lead to stating higher assets under IFRS than under US GAAP.  Walker acknowledges this fact, but questions the degree.  At that point, I wish you had both given up the argument.  This being a blog and not an academic journal, it was unreasonable for Walker to demand that you produce robust evidence for your claim.  You graciously produced anecdotal evidence, which was illustrative but not compelling.  Walker remained unconvinced; but rather than calmly stating so and leaving it at that, he attacked your anonymity and called you names.  By the same token, your tone was a bit too harsh for my taste, and in your rush to disparage the unwelcome commenter, you disregarded a reasonable objection: that after adjusting for differences in accounting, DB&#039;s leverage ratio (BV(A)/BV(E)) is 2.5x that of BAC [prior to adjusting for accounting, it is 6.3x].  The point is ultimately moot however, as arguing over a particular entity&#039;s leverage ratio isn&#039;t terribly enlightening.

FWIW, are you ignoring any material GAAP/IFRS differences with respect to the accounting for equity?  That is, you focus on the numerator, but what of the denominator?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was very frustrating to read this thread, not least because two intelligent parties failed to communicate with each other.  </p>
<p>JCK, your point is well taken that GAAP/IFRS divergences lead to stating higher assets under IFRS than under US GAAP.  Walker acknowledges this fact, but questions the degree.  At that point, I wish you had both given up the argument.  This being a blog and not an academic journal, it was unreasonable for Walker to demand that you produce robust evidence for your claim.  You graciously produced anecdotal evidence, which was illustrative but not compelling.  Walker remained unconvinced; but rather than calmly stating so and leaving it at that, he attacked your anonymity and called you names.  By the same token, your tone was a bit too harsh for my taste, and in your rush to disparage the unwelcome commenter, you disregarded a reasonable objection: that after adjusting for differences in accounting, DB&#8217;s leverage ratio (BV(A)/BV(E)) is 2.5x that of BAC [prior to adjusting for accounting, it is 6.3x].  The point is ultimately moot however, as arguing over a particular entity&#8217;s leverage ratio isn&#8217;t terribly enlightening.</p>
<p>FWIW, are you ignoring any material GAAP/IFRS differences with respect to the accounting for equity?  That is, you focus on the numerator, but what of the denominator?</p>
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		<title>By: gaius marius</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2939</link>
		<dc:creator>gaius marius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2939</guid>
		<description>sharp insight again, jck, even if taxing in exposition. :) thanks for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sharp insight again, jck, even if taxing in exposition. :) thanks for it.</p>
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		<title>By: -jck</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2937</link>
		<dc:creator>-jck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2937</guid>
		<description>acc:
thx, moral support always appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>acc:<br />
thx, moral support always appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: acc</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2936</link>
		<dc:creator>acc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2936</guid>
		<description>Thanks -- and for the blog too.  As I suspect you know, your blog is one of the best at focusing on key financial issues -- succinctly which is a big bonus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks &#8212; and for the blog too.  As I suspect you know, your blog is one of the best at focusing on key financial issues &#8212; succinctly which is a big bonus.</p>
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		<title>By: -jck</title>
		<link>http://www.aleablog.com/ifrs-vs-us-gaap-european-banks-leverage-overstated-picture/#comment-2935</link>
		<dc:creator>-jck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aleablog.com/?p=3135#comment-2935</guid>
		<description>acc:
I don&#039;t know the distribution, but the bulk of derivatives is not CDSs, mostly interest rates swaps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>acc:<br />
I don&#8217;t know the distribution, but the bulk of derivatives is not CDSs, mostly interest rates swaps.</p>
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